Transcript: Making Reconciliation a Reality | May 29, 2019

Steve sits in the studio. He's slim, clean-shaven, in his fifties, with short curly brown hair. He's wearing a blue suit, white shirt, and purple tie.

A caption on screen reads "Making reconciliation a reality. @spaikin, @theagenda."

Steve says IT'S BEEN MORE THAN
A DECADE SINCE THE LAUNCH OF
THE TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION
COMMISSION AND A QUARTER CENTURY
SINCE THE REPORT OF THE ROYAL
COMMISSION ON ABORIGINAL PEOPLE.
STILL, MANY CANADIANS WHEN IT
COMES RIGHT DOWN TO IT AREN'T
INFORMED ENOUGH ON THE HISTORY
OR CULTURE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE
TO KNOW WHAT RECONCILIATION IS
ALL ABOUT.
BOB JOE STEPH IS FOUNDER OF
INDIGENOUS CORPORATE TRAINING
INC. HIS FIRST BOOK CALLED "21
THINGS YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT
THE INDIAN ACT" AND NOW HE'S
PUBLISHED A SEQUEL IT'S CALLED
"INDIGENOUS RELATIONS:
INSIGHTS, TIPS and SUGGESTIONS TO
MAKE RECONCILIATION A REALITY."
AND BOB JOINS US FOR MORE.

Bob is in his fifties, clean-shaven, with short, side-parted salt and pepper hair. He's wearing a blue shirt.
A picture of his book appears briefly on screen. The cover is white, with the title in black and red print.

Steve continues NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK IN THAT CHAIR.

Bob says THANK YOU.
MY PLEASURE.

Steve says I WANT TO START BY
READING AN EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK
AND I KIND OF LIKE THE WAY YOU
GOT INTO IT SO HERE WE GO.
YOU READY?

Bob says I AM READY READY.

Steve says SHELDON, LET'S PUT
THIS GRAPHIC UP AND PEOPLE CAN
READ ALONG. YOU START BY SAYING...

A quote appears on screen, under the title "Thanks for picking up this book." The quote reads "Doing so shows that you are interested in joining so many others on the journey to reconciliation. The insights, tips and suggestions included here are all practical and doable. We're sure you will have some 'aha!' moments as you read. You may even have some 'oh no!' moments that make you squirm. Don't feel bad. We're all on this learning journey together, and together we will make this world a better place.
Gilakas'la."
Quoted from Bob Joseph with Cynthia F. Joseph, "Indigenous relations." 2019.

Steve says BOB JOSEPH AND YOUR WIFE
CYNTHIA F. JOSEPH WITH WHOM YOU
WORKED WITH ON THE BOOK.
JUST BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER,
GILAKAS'LA. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

Bob says GREETINGS.

Steve says IN WHAT LANGUAGE?

Bob says KWAKWALA.
AND YOU DID WELL BY THE WAY.

Steve says THANK YOU. THAT IS A
DIFFERENT WAY TO OPEN A BOOK.
WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT?

The caption changes to "Bob Joseph. Author, 'Indigenous relations.'"
Then, it changes again to "Important context."

Bob says YOU KNOW WHAT, I THINK THAT
RECONCILIATION REQUIRES TO JUST
THINK DIFFERENTLY AND SO I AM
ALWAYS TRYING TO SEE AS MANY
PERSPECTIVES AS I CAN.
AS WELL AS SHARE AS MANY
PERSPECTIVES AS I CAN AS WELL.

Steve says WHY DO YOU THINK
IT'S SO DIFFICULT FOR SO MANY TO
DISCUSS RECONCILIATION?

Bob says I THINK YOU KNOW I THINK
CANADIANS AT SOME LEVEL FEEL A
LITTLE BIT OF GUILT MAYBE SOME
SHAME IN BEHIND SOME OF THE
HISTORY YOU KNOW THEY ARE ONLY
JUST LEARNING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL
SCHOOLS AND INDIAN HOSPITALS AND
YOU KNOW WE CERTAINLY STILL HAVE
ARTICLES ABOUT DRINKING WATER
AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND SO
I THINK IT'S UNCOMFORTABLE TOPIC
FOR PEOPLE, SO.

Steve says YOU GO THROUGH QUITE
SIGNIFICANT CHAPTER AND VERSE
ACTUALLY I SHOULD SAY YOU KNOW
WHAT I TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE WE
WENT ON THE AIR MUCH IT'S A
REALLY GOOD BOOK AND I DON'T
KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THIS HERE
IT'S FAIRLY SHORT.
SO IT IS GOOD PUNCHY PRACTICAL
DOABLE ADVICE AS YOU CALL IT BUT
YOU DO GO THROUGH CHAPTER AND
VERSE OF SORT OF THE MOST COMMON
MISTAKES THAT NONINDIGENOUS
PEOPLE MAKE WHEN TRYING TO
RELATE TO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
GO AHEAD.
WHAT'S YOUR FAVOURITE?

The caption changes to "Bob Joseph, @wewap."

Bob says UM YOU KNOW WHAT MY FAVOURITE
IS PEOPLE WANT TO REALLY HELP.
I GET A SENSE THAT CANADIANS
WANT TO ENGAGE AND BE INVOLVED
IN RECONCILIATION BUT THEY
REALLY JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO
START OR WHAT TO DO AND SO THEIR
FIRST SENSE WHICH I THINK IS A
TOTALLY CONVENIENT VALUE IS SAY
I AM HERE TO HELP AND I ALWAYS
TELL PEOPLE THAT'S GREAT THAT
YOU WANT TO HELP.
PLEASE DO.
IT'S VERY MUCH NEEDED.
BUT YOU KNOW WHEN WE LOOK AT
INDIAN AFFAIRS OF THE LAST 130
YEARS THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ALL
BASED ON.
HEY, I AM FROM THE GOVERNMENT
AND I AM HERE TO HELP H I TELL
PEOPLE THEY SEE THE PLIGHT AND I
REALLY WANT TO HELP DON'T STAY
THAT.
IT WILL BRING BACK MEMORIES AND
DO THINGS THAT YOU DON'T WANT IT
TO DO.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE BIG THING.

The caption changes to "Connect with us: Twitter: @theagenda; Facebook, agendaconnect@tvo.org, Instagram."

Steve says ONE OF THE BIG
REVEALS IN THE BOOK WAS THE
MOTION THAT IF WERE YOU TALKING
TO PEOPLE IN THE JEWISH
COMMUNITY NOBODY WOULD ASSUME
THAT THEY ALL HAD THE SAME
VALUES OR THE SAME CULTURAL
APPROACHES ON EVERYTHING OR THE
ITALIAN COMMUNITY OR THE GREEK
COMMUNITY OR WHATEVER.
BUT FOR SOME REASON WE SEEM TO
THINK THAT WHEN YOU SAY AN
INDIGENOUS PERSON REGARDLESS OF
WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY OR WHAT
NATION, ET CETERA THAT IT'S
SOMEHOW MONOCULTURAL NOT THE
CASE, RIGHT?

Bob says NO, NO.
IT'S REALLY DIVERSE COUNTRY IN
TERMS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.
WHEN WE LOOK AT JUST FIRST
NATIONS MAJOR LANGUAGE FAMILIES
50 DIFFERENT DIALECTS IT'S
DIFFERENT AS STASH IS TO
JAPANESE AND THEN YOU THROW IN
TO THAT MIX INUIT AND ALSO METIS
PEOPLES AND WHAT YOU HAVE IS...
IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT MAP OF
INDIGENOUS PEOPLES IN CANADA IT
WOULD BE LIKE LOOKING AT A MAP
OF EUROPE JUST IN TERMS OF THE
CULTURE AND REGIONAL
DIFFERENCES.

Steve says NOBODY EXPECTS GREEK
AND GERMAN AND FRENCH PEOPLE TO
ALL HAVE THE SAME CULTURE AND
SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE BUT FOR
SOME REASON WE STEAM TO THINK
THAT'S THE CASE FOR INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE.

Bob says I THINK IT WAS THE INDIAN ACT
THAT REALLY SORT OF HOMOGENIZED
EVERYTHING.
THEY ARE INDIAN SO THEREFORE
THEY MUST ALL THINK ALIKE BUT
THEY DON'T.
THEY REALLY... YOU CAN... I
ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE YOU CAN FIND
THREE DIFFERENT VIEWS THEY WILL
BE SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT WATER
TALKING ABOUT THEY WILL BE
AGAINST WHAT YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT OR THEY WON'T REALLY EVEN
BE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU
ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Steve says WHAT DO YOU THINK
NONINDIGENOUS PEOPLE NEED TO
KNOW FIRST AND FOREKNOWS ABOUT
THE TREATIES?

Bob says I THINK THE TREATIES ARE A
FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE
RELATIONSHIP.
THERE ARE TREATIES WHICH IF YOU
DOWNLOADED TREATY 3 HERE
NORTHWEST ONTARIO AND PRINT IT
HAD ON 8.5 X 1-1-PIECES OF PAPER
IT WOULD BE THREE PAGES WITH
SIGNATURES AND PREAMBLE AND YOU
KNOW TEXT WHERE IF YOU LOOKED AT
A MODERN TREATY FROM BRITISH
COLUMBIA THE NISGA'A TREATY IT'S
976 PAGE LEGAL DOCUMENT WITH THE
Is DOTTED AND IS THE Ts
CROSSED SO THERE CAN BE QUITE
BIG DIFFERENCES BUT THEY ARE
IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIPS
DOCUMENTS FOR CANADIANS AND
LARGELY THEY WERE DONE IN 1763
TO SOLIDIFY MILITARY AND
ECONOMIC ALLIANCE BY THE BRITISH
COLONIAL GOVERNMENT.
THIS IS A HUNDRED YEARS AND MORE
BEFORE CANADA WAS CANADA.
YEAH, YEAH, KING GEORGE
RECOGNIZED ALL OF THE INDIGENOUS
PEOPLES THAT WERE HERE AS
NATIONS OF PEOPLE.
THESE ARE NATIONS OF PEOPLE SO
WHEREVER WE GO YOU KNOW
NEWMARKET TODAY OR SOME OTHER
PART OF THE COUNTRY WHEREVER WE
GO THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE THEY
ARE A NATION OF PEOPLE AND
WHEREVER THERE IS THEY ACTUALLY
OWN IT AND WE HAVE TO BUY IT
FROM THEM.
SO THIS ROYAL PROCLAMATION
REALLY CODIFIED THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN TODAY'S CANADA AND
INDIGENOUS PEOPLES THAT SAID
THESE ARE NATIONS THEY OWN LAND,
WE HAVE TO BUY IT FROM THEM AND
IT ACTUALLY SAID WE ARE NOT
SUPPOSED TO MOLEST OR DISTURB
THEM IN THE POSSESSION OF SUCH
PARTS OF OUR DOMINIONS AND
TERRITORIES.
HONESTLY I THINK YOU KNOW WE
THINK ABOUT STAR TREK FRANCHISE
IF YOU REMEMBER THE PRIME
DIRECTIVE.

Steve says NONINTERFERENCE.

Bob says NONINTERFERENCE.

Steve says MAYBE THEY GOT A
LITTLE BIT OF HELP FROM THE
ROYAL PROCLAMATION JUST IN TERMS
OF THE YOU KNOW THE RELATIONSHIP
THAT IS THERE.
THAT EXISTS.
THERE IS A CHAPTER
IN HERE ON WHAT ARE AS YOU'VE
DESCRIBED THEM COMMONLY...
COMMONLY HELD MYTHS THAT ARE NOT
THE CASE BUT WHICH ARE WIDELY
HELD VIEWS.
AND I WANT TO GO THROUGH SOME OF
THEM WITH YOU RIGHT NOW AND I'LL
PUT TO YOU WHAT PEOPLE... WHAT
MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE AND YOU CAN
TELL ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.
OKAY.
FOR EXAMPLE AND YOU HAVE HEARD
THIS NO DOUBT.
INDIANS ALREADY HAVE AMPLE
RESERVE LAND AND RESOURCES.

The caption changes to "tvo.org/theagenda; agendaconnect@tvo.org."

Bob says YEAH.
YEAH.
SO THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE ENOUGH
LANDS AND RESOURCES TO BE
SELF-RELIANT.
I THINK THAT'S THE KEY PLACE.
THERE IS A PLACE FOR THEM TO
LIVE BUT IN TERM OF THAT
SELF-RELIANT RUNNING THEIR
GOVERNMENT LOOKING AFTER THEIR
NATIONS AND CULTURE REVS DON'T
GIVE THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY.
IF WE REMEMBER BACK TO 21
THINGS, RESERVES WERE CREATED
AS PART OF A POST-CONFEDERATION
ASSIMILATION POLICY SO WE
ACTUALLY FLIP-FLOP ON INDIAN
POLICY IN 1867.
WE DECIDE THEY WILL ASSIMILATE
SO WE PUT THEY WILL ON THESE
PARCELS OF LAND CALLED RESERVE
LANDS AND THEY DON'T EVEN OWN
THE LANDS THAT THEY LIVE ON SET
ASIDE FOR THEIR USE AND BENEFIT.
IT WAS A PLACE WHERE THEY WOULD
GO UNTIL THEY ASSIMILATE.
AND SO THAT'S THE BIG CHALLENGE.
THEY DON'T OWN THOSE RESERVE
LANDS.
THEY DON'T EVEN OWN THE HOUSES.
YOU CAN ASK SOMEBODY THAT LIVES
ON A RESERVE DO YOU OWN THAT
HOUSE.
ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S MINE.
WE HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER BUT
LEGALLY TECHNICALLY UNDERNEATH
IT ALL IS YOU KNOW INDIAN AND
NORTHERN AFFAIRS CANADA TITLE
THAT SAYS IS VESTED IN HER
MAJESTY. SO THAT CREATES ALL
KINDS OF CHALLENGES FOR PEOPLE
LIVING ON RESERVE LANDS.
AND THEY ARE, JUST FOR
PEOPLES' REFERENCE, THEY ARE
RESERVE LANDS IN CANADA.
THEY'RE NOT RESERVATIONS, THAT'S
REALLY A U.S. EXPRESSION SO I'M
ALWAYS TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE
WITH SORT OF THAT PIECE.
WE ONLY HAVE RESERVATIONS AT
HOTELS, AIRLINES, RESTAURANTS,
AND PLACES LIKE THAT.

The caption changes to "Myth versus fact."

Steve says NOW IF I REMEMBER
THE MATH, IN FACT, INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE, OWN WHAT, 0.2 percent OF THE
LAND IN THIS COUNTRY?

Bob says YEAH, IT'S NOT A VERY BIG
NUMBER IN TERMS OF A PERCENTAGE
TO LAND MASS GAP AND LIKE I SAY,
THEY DON'T EVEN REALLY OWN IT.
THE TITLE IS STILL VESTED IN
HER MAJESTY.
THE IDEA WAS THEY WERE SUPPOSED
TO ASSIMILATE AND THEN THE
FEDERAL CROWN WOULD HAVE LANDS
IT COULD DECIDE WHAT IT WANTED
TO DO WITH... DISPOSE OF OR
OTHERWISE.

Steve says OKAY, MYTH number 2.
INDIANS GET FREE HOUSING.

The caption changes to "Watch us anytime: tvo.org, Twitter: @theagenda, Facebook Live."

Bob says YEAH, SO THE HOUSING ON
RESERVES IS COMPLICATED AND EACH
COMMUNITY WILL DO IT A BIT
DIFFERENTLY.
SOME COMMUNITIES I CAN REMEMBER
TALKING TO A FORMER CHIEF OF THE
HUILA KAI NATION WON'T BUILD
THEIR MEMBERS HOUSES.
WHATEVER YOU LIVE IN, STEVE,
THAT'S UP TO YOU.
WE WILL SPEND THE MONEY THAT WE
DO GET TO PUT DOWN FIVE BLOCKS
OF SEWER AND ELECTRICITY AND
THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WE DON'T
ACTUALLY BUILD OUR MEMBERS
HOUSES.
WHERE OTHER PEOPLES THEY TRY
EXPERIMENTING WITH SOCIAL
HOUSING WHERE YOU CAN GET A
HOUSE AND LIVE IN IT AS LONG AS
YOU PAY 400 dollars A MONTH FOR X
NUMBER OF YEARS.
SO IT'S NOT A RENTAL PAYMENT
BECAUSE EVENTUALLY IT WILL STOP
BUT IT'S NOT A MORTGAGE PAYMENT
EITHER.
THEY DON'T OWN IT WHEN THEY ARE
DONE.
SO BANDS WILL BE SORT OF
DIFFERENT THINGS TO TRY AND
INCREASE HE THE NUMBER OF
HOUSING FOR PEOPLE LIVING ON
RESERVE.

Steve says MYTH NUMBER THREE.
INDIANS DON'T PAY TAXES.

Bob says YEAH.
WE HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC AND I
THINK THAT'S LIKE A REALLY
SPECIFIC MYTH IF TERMS OF
INDIANS.
WE WALK DOWNTOWN STREET TO SEE
INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND WE ASSUME
THAT THEY ALL DON'T PAY TAXES
BUT IF WE WERE TO THINK OF METIS
PEOPLE THEY PAY TAXES.
THEY HAVE ALWAYS PAID TAXES.
INUIT PEOPLE AREN'T COVERED
UNDER THE INDIAN ACT SO THAT
WILL BE IN THAT TAX PAYING GROUP
OF PEOPLES.
AND THEN WHEN WE GET TO THE
ACTUAL INDIAN IN THE
CONSTITUTION INDIAN INUIT AND
METIS PEOPLES IT IS ONLY THE
STAT US INDIAN WHO ARE ELIGIBLE
FOR AN INCOME TAX EXEMPTION
UNDER THE INDIAN ACT WITHIN A
SECTION CALLED 87... SECTION 87.
WAS PUT INTO PLACE TO PROTECT
THEIR PROPERTY FROM THE EROSION
OF TAXES WHILE THEY WERE
ASSIMILATING.
SO IF YOU ARE A STATUS INDIAN
WORKING ON A RESERVE AND BEING
PAID ON A RESERVE THOSE ARE
REVENUE CANADA REQUIREMENTS.
YOU CAN GET YOUR INCOME TAX
EXEMPT.
YOU ONLY NEED TO MEET TWO OF
THE REQUIREMENTS.
CERTAINLY BEING A STATUS INDIAN
IS ONE OF THEM AND WHERE YOU
WORK AND WHERE YOU ARE PAID ARE
THE OTHER TWO PIECES.

Steve says WHAT PERCENTAGE OF
INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN THE
COUNTRY WOULD MEET THOSE CRITERIA?

Bob says YOU KNOW, I'VE TRIED TO GET
THE ANSWER A FEW TIMES AND THE
PROBLEM WITH THE ANSWER IS THAT
REVENUE CANADA WILL SEND ANSWERS
THAT INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO ARE
EMPLOYABLE, SO PERSONAL INCOME
TAX, THEY'LL INCLUDE NUMBERS
AROUND INCOME TAX EXEMPTIONS
FOR GOODS AND SERVICES DELIVERED
TO A RESERVE.
SO I'M ALWAYS A LITTLE BIT
CONFUSED WHEN IT COMES UP BUT
I WOULD HAVE TO SAY MAYBE IN THE
200,000 AT THE MOST.
AND TO ME, THAT'S A REALLY HIGH
NUMBER JUST IN TERMS OF... WHEN
WE LOOK AT RESERVES, TYPICALLY,
THERE'S USUALLY HIGH LEVELS OF
UNEMPLOYMENT SO I'M NOT SURE
WHERE THOSE NUMBERS ARE COMING
FROM. I'M A STATUS INDIAN HERE
TODAY BUT WHERE WE ARE IN
DOWNTOWN TORONTO MAKES ME JUST
AS TAXABLE AS...

Steve says THE NEXT GUY.

Bob says I GOTTA PAY UNCLE... NOT
UNCLE SAM, WRONG GOVERNMENT.

Steve says OKAY, MYTH number 4.
INDIANS GET FREE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION.

Bob says THERE IS POST-SECONDARY
EDUCATION DOLLARS AVAILABLE
THROUGH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
TRANSFERRED TO THEM ON A PER
CAPITA BASIS.
YOUR BAND HAS TO HAVE ENOUGH OF
A PER CAPITA TO GET FUNDING
TRANSFERRED BUT THERE IS ALWAYS
A WAITING LIST NOT EVERYBODY ON
THAT WAITING LIST GETS TO GO I
WOULD SAY OF THE 100 percent, 80 percent
PROBABLY WOULDN'T GET ANY KIND
OF FUNDING FROM THE BAND TO GO
TO POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION.
SOME BANDS WILL ONLY PAY THE
TUITION AND SOME WILL PAY
TUITION AND BOOKS AND SOME WILL
PAY TUITION, BOOKS AND LIVING
ALLOWANCE OF UP TO I THINK 600 dollars
A MONTH TO GOING AND HAVE A
PLACE TO LIVE WHILE YOU ARE
GOING TO SCHOOL.

Steve says BOB, THIS IS
PROBABLY THE MOST HURTFUL MYTH
THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE NO DOUBT
HEAR.
RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS ARE ANCIENT
HISTORY SO WHY CAN'T THEY JUST
GET OVER IT.

Bob says YEAH.
VERY... IT'S A TOUGH ONE YOU KNOW.
THEY ARE ANCIENT HISTORY BUT
FROM THE COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE
THEY ARE STILL HEALING FROM
THOSE RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS AND
ACTUALLY YOU HAVE TO ALSO PUT IT
INTO A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT THE
LAST SCHOOL CLOSED IN 1996.

Steve says THAT'S NOT HAD A
ANCIENT.

Bob says I DON'T THINK SO.

Steve says NO.

Bob says WHICH MEANS THEY ARE VERY
YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE
SCHOOLS HOPS AS PEOPLE ARE
PROBABLY STARTING TO REALLY SEE
AND LEARN NOW THOSE WERE
HORRIBLE EXPERIENCES IN TERMS OF
THE ABUSE AND ALL OF THE THINGS
THAT HAPPEN.
PRIME MINISTER HARPER NOTED IN
HIS APOLOGY, POWERLESS PEOPLE,
NATURE OF RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS.
SO IT IS... I THINK YOU KNOW IT
TOOK US FOUR GENERATIONS TO GET
INTO THIS MESS.
I DON'T THINK WE WILL GET OUT
IN --ER I HOPE IT'S NOT FOUR BUT
I DON'T THINK WE WILL GET OUT IN
ONE.
I WAS THINKING THAT IF AS LONG
AS WE KEEP IMPLEMENTING THE TRC
RECOMMENDATIONS 15 YEARS FROM
NOW THIS WILL AB COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT COUNTRY BUT ANYTHING
LESS THAN THAT WOULD BE
UNREALISTIC.
AND AS FAR AS GETTING OVER IT I
CAN REMEMBER TALKING TO A LADY
AT ONE OF OUR SESSIONS AND I
DON'T USUALLY ASK A QUESTION OR
TO ANSWER A QUESTION BUT SHE
SAID YOU KNOW WHEN WILL PEOPLE
GET OVER IT, BOB.
AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO HER
ON THE BREAK AND I WOULD ASK HER
IF SHE HAD KIDS.
SORT OF YOU KNOW SORT OF A
SOCIABLE CONVERSATION AND SHE
SAID SO WHEN DO YOU THINK THEY
WILL GET OVER IT.
I DON'T KNOW.
YOU HAVE KIDS.
WHEN WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GET
OVER HE THAT YOURSELF?
IT WAS SORT OF A QUESTION WITH A
QUESTION WHICH I DON'T ALWAYS
LIKE TO DO BUT...

Steve says SOMETIME THAT'S THE
MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO GO.

Bob says YEAH.

Steve says WE SHOULD CLARIFY
CONFIDENT I USED THE WORD INDIAN
IN ADDRESSING THESE MYTHS
BECAUSE THAT IS OFTEN THE
LANGUAGE WHICH IS USED.
INDIAN DON'T THIS OR WHATEVER.
AGAIN, YOU HAVE REFERENCES IN
THE BOOK TO THE APPROPRIATE
LANGUAGE TO BE USED TODAY.
START WITH THAT.

Bob says YEAH, SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE
ALWAYS ASKING ME, BOB, WHAT'S
THE BEST TERMINOLOGY.
TELL ME AND I WILL USE IT.
HONESTLY THE BEST TERMINOLOGY IS
WHATEVER THE PERSON OR GROUP OF
PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE TALKING TO
IS USING YOU YOU KNOW.
SO FOR OUR CORPORATE CLIENTS AND
OUR GOVERNMENT CLIENTS I'LL
ACTUALLY TELL THEM IF YOU REALLY
WANT TO KNOW WHAT A THE BEST
TERMINOLOGY IS CALL THE BAND
OFFICE.
AFTER HOURS LISTEN TO THE
RECORDED MESSAGE.
YOU WILL SURPRISED WHAT YOU WILL
HEAR.
YOU WILL HEAR OH, YOU HAVE
REACHED WEST BANK FIRST NATION.
OUR OFFICE HOURS ARE 8:30 TO
4:00 WHATEVER THOSE OFFICE HOURS
ARE.
BUT YOU WILL ALSO HEAR YOU KNOW
THE ANSWERING MACHINE SAY OH,
YOU HAVE REACHED THE PENTICTON
INDIAN WANTED OFFICE AND YOU
KNOW OTHER... THE OTHER TERM.
I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE HE GO WITH
WHAT THEY ARE CALLING THEMSELVES
THAT'S THE BEST TERMINOLOGY AND
YOU WON'T GET INTO ANY TROUBLE
AND IF YOU ARE STILL SORT OF
FUMBLING AROUND WE JUST MET A
CONFERENCE AND YOU ARE NOT SURE
WHAT THE BEST TERMINOLOGY IS I
TELL PEOPLE TO GO WITH
COMMUNITY, JUST TELL ME MORE
ABOUT YOUR COMMUNITY, STEVE.
I'LL TRY AND GET PEOPLE TO BE
COMFORT THAT WILL BE WAY OR I'LL
FEED OFF THEIR CUE.
WHERE ARE YOU FROM.
ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS I
WILL ASK OTHER INDIGENOUS
PEOPLES.
AND THEY WILL USE GIVE ME A HINT
OF WHICH COMMUNITY THEY ARE
FROM.
AND IN THERE I CAN HEAR NATION
OR BAND OR TRIBE SOMETIMES AND
SO I WILL PICK UP OFF OF THAT.
AND I DEFINITELY IF WE ARE AT A
COMMUNITY GATHERING I WILL
LISTEN TO HOW THEY ARE
INTRODUCING THEMSELVES.
SO THAT'S MY... CAN I BORROW
FROM A HOCKEY ANALOGY? MY DON
CHERRY ROCKET SURGERY ADVICE?
GO WITH WHAT THEY'RE CALLIN'
THEMSELVES AND YOU WON'T GET
INTO TOO MUCH TROUBLE.

Steve says THERE WE GO.
WE ARE DOWN TO OUR LAST MINUTE
AND CHANGE HERE.
I WANT TO... LET'S FINISH UP ON
SOME PRACTICAL ADVICE HERE.
DO YOU MENTION IN THE BOOK
IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A
MEETING WITH INDIGENOUS PEOPLE A
BUSINESS MEETING FORECAST, BE
CAREFUL NOT TO OVERDRESS.
AND YOU ALSO SAY DON'T KEEP
LOOKING AT YOUR WATCH.
NOW LET'S GET THE EXPLANATION
BEHIND THOSE TWO PIECES OF
ADVICE.
HOW COME?

Bob says I LIKE IT.
YOU KNOW THE DRESS AND I REALLY
LIKE YOUR CONSTITUTE AND TIE I
JUST WANT TO THROW THAT OUT
THERE HAD.

Steve says AND I LIKE THE FACT
THAT YOU ARE NOT WEARING ONE.

Bob says THERE YOU GO.
BUT I THINK YOU KNOW IN TERMS OF
THAT AUTHORITY FIGURE REMEMBER
IT WAS THE CHURCH, IT WAS THE
STATE, IT WAS THE POLICE WHO
WERE TAKING AWAY THE KIDS AND
THOSE ARE VERY MUCH AUTHORITY
FIGURE ISSUES CREATED OUT OF
THAT.
SO IF WE SHOW UP WITH A REALLY
NICE YOU KNOW CONSTITUTE AND TIE
BLUE BLAZER, YOU KNOW, THEN I
THINK THERE IS A CHANCE THERE
THAT WE TRIGGER AUTHORITY FIGURE
ISSUES.
I JUST TELL PEOPLE IF YOU WANT
TO... IF YOU ARE GOING IN TO
MEET WITH THE COMMUNITY CHECK
OUT THE WEB SITE OR THEIR
FACEBOOK PAGE KIND OF TAKE A
LOOK HOW EVERYBODY ELSE IS
DRESSING IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF
WHEN IN ROME.
FOR THE MOST PART I TELL PEOPLE
JUST TO DRESS FOR THE WEATHER
AND IT'S REALLY BECAUSE WE DON'T
WANT TO TRIGGER AUTHORITY FIGURE
ISSUES.

Steve says HOW ABOUT LOOKING AT
THE WATCH?

The caption changes to "Working together."

Bob says ISSUING THE WATCH.
TIME IS IMPORTANT.
INDIAN TIME YOU KNOW.
WE HEAR THAT A LOT.
TIME IS IMPORTANT BUT IT'S NOT
AS IMPORTANT AS HAVING THE RIGHT
PEOPLE THERE.
WE WOULDN'T BE UPSET IF A
MEETING STARTED LATE BECAUSE
STEVE'S NOT HERE.
WE HAVE TO GET STEVE HERE THAT'S
THE TIME TO START THE MOVING.
HE COULD BE COMING FROM FLOAT
PLANE OR BOAT OR SOME FAR OFF
PLACE TO JOIN THE MEETING.
IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THE WATCH
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIPS
HE.
IF YOU ARE CONSTANTLY LOOKING AT
THE WATCH I GOT TWO MORE MINUTES
AND I KNOW WE ARE OVER TIME NOW
SO YOU KNOW I THINK THOSE ARE
THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT REALLY
GET PEOPLE... I CAN REMEMBER
WORKING WITH ONE EXECUTIVE FROM
HERE IN TORONTO ACTUALLY.
HE WAS GOING INTO NEGOTIATE WITH
THE COMMUNITY AND HE JUST LEANED
OUT ON THE TABLE NICE BLUE
JACKET BUT A REALLY NICE WATCH
POPPED OUT AND THE CHIEF LOOKED
AT HIM AND SAID NICE WATCH.
AND HE SAID YEAH, IT'S A
BREITLING OR WHATEVER IT WAS
SOME HUGE NAME BRAND AND THE
CHIEF LET HIM FINISH THE STORY
AND THEN HE SAID YOU'VE GOT A
WATCH.
I HAVE TIME.
AND THIS EXECUTIVE WHO WAS GOING
INTO NEGOTIATE SAID I NEVER FELT
MORE AT A DISADVANTAGE IN
NEGOTIATIONS BECAUSE MY WATCH
POPPED OUT SO.

The caption changes to "Producer: Meredith Martin, @MeredithMartin."

Steve says GOOD STORY.
GOOD STORY.
WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT.
"INDIGENOUS RELATIONS" IS THE
NAME OF THE BOOK.
"INSIGHTS, TIPS and SUGGESTIONS TO
MAKE RECONCILIATION A REALITY."

The caption changes to "Subscribe to The Agenda Podcast: tvo.org/theagenda."

Steve says THANK YOU, BOB.

Bob says THANK YOU.

Watch: Making Reconciliation a Reality